Rape in Tolkien’s Middle-earth (Part II)

Following on from my previous post on this topic, we continue our look at portrayals of rape in Tolkien’s Middle-earth.

(5) Elmar and Buldar

Pinnath Gelin, the "green hills", stood in what became western Gondor.

This one is comfortably the most obscure example on the list, and is found in Tolkien’s unfinished “perspective-flip” story, Tal-Elmar (H.O.M.E. XII), where the native people of Middle-earth confront Númenórean imperialism.

During the Second Age, the locals of Agar defeat another people (who look Númenórean, without actually being so). Elmar, one of the defeated folk, is forcibly married to Buldar, a local; her youngest (and most loved) child is one Hazad Longbeard, who in turn has seventeen sons. The youngest (and most loved) of Hazad’s sons, Tal-Elmar looks very much like his grandmother, and is the protagonist – until the story cuts off. I have seen suggestions that Tal-Elmar is, in fact, an origin story for the Witch-King, but we shall never know.

So, basically, what we have here is another example of forcible marriage (i.e. rape) arising from a battle situation. Unlike Aerin and Brodda, however, the non-consenting relationship between Elmar and Buldar leads to children, and then grandchildren: Tal-Elmar himself being the product of this. Also, in contrast to Aerin and Brodda, there is no narrative punishment for the marital rapist – Buldar comes home with “a wound, a sword, and a woman,” and that is that. Very amoral and grimdark, with a gritty flavour of the sort associated with the darker moments in The Children of Húrin. The sole exception is that Elmar curses the people of Agar to weaken and die out – as the story cuts off when Tal-Elmar meets the evil Númenóreans, we never see the circumstances under which the rape-victim’s curse manifests itself.

(6) Ar-Pharazôn and Míriel

Shyangell - Ar-Zimraphrel.jpg

In yet another case of marital rape, we encounter the case of Ar-Pharazôn taking Míriel in order to usurp the throne of Númenor. Míriel, if you recall, is the heir to the throne, but her cousin essentially launches a coup, reducing her to the status of helpless by-stander.

Tolkien generally devotes little time to Míriel: his focus is much more on Pharazôn, and we really do not know the level of agency the Queen has in this situation. However, I would note two things:

(i) Their marriage is childless. This is interesting (and rarely noted) – the only other childless monarch of Númenor is Tar-Telperiën, the Second Ruling Queen. But Telperiën has an heir in the form of her nephew. Who is Pharazôn’s heir, other than Míriel herself? We do not know. There is the thematic element that Ar-Pharazôn is the King who wants to live forever, so of course he does not care about such issues – but in terms of in-universe rationalisation, it is potentially an indication that Ar-Pharazôn has little interest in his wife’s reproductive potential (cue fanfiction with a homosexual Pharazôn…). His interest in Míriel is as a pathway to power, not as a woman – which potentially suggests that after an initial unwilling consummation, he largely lets her be.

(ii) Tolkien wrote an alternative version where Míriel is head-over-heels in love with the charismatic charmer Pharazôn, and yields the throne willingly. This, of course, would completely nullify the notion that this is a case of marital rape – though it means the lack of children likely has to be explained via lack of fertility on Míriel or Pharazôn’s part (or perhaps the King really does prefer men?). Regardless of the storyline, I do wonder about the extent to which the wave sweeping her away as she climbs Meneltarma is a comment on Míriel’s culpability in her husband’s activities.

(7) Saruman’s Orcs and the Dunlendings

Related image

The origin of the orcs is both murky and unpleasant – having initially floated the idea that Melkor captured Elves and then subjected them to prolonged and unspeakable acts, Tolkien never came to a fixed conclusion.

We can, however, make some reasonable (if nightmarish) inferences about how Saruman created the Uruk-hai, the peculiar strain of large, sun-resistant orcs:

It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman’s Orcs can endure it, even if they hate it.  I wonder what he has done?  Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men?  That would be black evil!

Yes, Treebeard, it is – and the manner in which he does the blending is an even blacker evil. Saruman has access to both a pool of orcs (those of the Misty Mountains), and a pool of men (the Dunlendings). Consensual sex between orcs and humans seems far-fetched, but one does not need to stretch one’s imagination to concoct a scenario whereby Saruman disappears Dunlending women, and has them raped by his orcs in the dungeons beneath Isengard. Rinse and repeat, until he has his genetically modified servant race – and if Isengard suddenly resembles a giant concentration camp, you would not be far wrong. Not that the Dunlendings themselves seem to have noticed or cared – Saruman was promising to give them their land back, and sticking it to the Forgoil was more important than a few of their women disappearing in the night.

Note that Peter Jackson’s solution of making the Uruk-hai into pod-people is significantly less dark than the implication of the source material. This is perfectly understandable: showing what Tolkien was implying would have destroyed the movies’ PG-13 rating.


I have now looked at several examples of rape, or potential rape, in Tolkien’s stories. But the matter does not end there: there are several additional examples where Tolkien characters are quite clearly countenancing it, but (thankfully) do not have the opportunity to act on it.

(1) Morgoth and Lúthien


At the culmination of the Quest for the Silmaril, Beren and Lúthien come face-to-face with Morgoth himself, in the very depths of Angband. Lúthien seeks to beguile him through song and dance, whereupon:

“Then Morgoth looking upon her beauty conceived in his thought an evil lust, and a design more dark than any that had yet come into his heart since he fled from Valinor.”

In earlier versions:

“Nay,” saith Melko, “such things are little to my mind; but as thou hast come thus far to dance, dance, and after we will see,” and with that he leered horribly, for his dark mind pondered some evil.” (H.O.M.E. II)

“Then Morgoth laughed, but he was moved with suspicion, and said that her accursed race would get no soft words or favour in Angband. What could she do to give him pleasure, and save herself from the lowest dungeons? He reached out his mighty brazen hand but she shrank away. He is angry but she offers to dance.” (H.O.M.E. III, Commentary).

“And she beguiled Morgoth, even as his heart plotted foul evil within him; and she danced before him.” (H.O.M.E. IV).

In contrast to Aredhel’s story, this appears to be a case of Tolkien ramping up the unpleasantness over time. Tolkien never goes into specifics, but by the time we reach the “evil lust” line of the published Silmarillion, I cannot read this as anything other than Morgoth thinking about raping Lúthien. Morgoth has done terrible things since he arrived back in Angband, and has done horrific things to captives – what could he do to Lúthien that he has not already done to, say, Maedhros? Along the lines of the Arien story, I would also suggest that his motivation here was not a “taking to wife” or the begetting of offspring, but to pervert and taint this most beautiful of Elves, to ruin her as he would ruin the world itself. Morgoth does not create, remember. Morgoth pollutes, corrupts, and destroys.

(2) The Sons of Feanor and Lúthien

Image result for celegorm luthien

Morgoth is not the only one with designs upon Lúthien. While Beren and Finrod are held prisoner in Sauron’s dungeons, Lúthien comes to the rescue. But first she runs into the Sons of Feanor:

“[Huan] brought her to Celegorm, and Lúthien, learning that he was a prince of the Noldor and a foe of Morgoth, was glad; and she declared herself, casting aside her cloak. So great was her sudden beauty revealed beneath the sun that Celegorm became enamoured of her; but he spoke her fair, and promised that she would find help in her need, if she returned with him now to Nargothrond. By no sign did he reveal that he knew already of Beren and the quest, of which she told, nor that it was a matter which touched him near.

Thus they broke off the hunt and returned to Nargothrond, and Lúthien was betrayed; for they held her fast, and took away her cloak, and she was not permitted to pass the gates or to speak with any save the brothers, Celegorm and Curufin. For now, believing that Beren and Felagund were prisoners beyond hope of aid, they purposed to let the King perish, and to keep Lúthien, and force Thingol to give her the mightiest of princes of the Noldor.

In short, Celegorm becomes enamoured by Lúthien’s beauty. He lies to her, and once he gets her in a position of vulnerability, strips her of any protection, either physical or emotional. Celegorm and Curufin then try to force Thingol to give up his daughter’s hand in marriage.

Sex = marriage in Tolkien (save for Morgoth…), so Celegorm forcing Lúthien into marriage means he intends to rape her. That he and his brother are so hung up on forcing Thingol to sign off on the arrangement is almost darkly comic – Curufin is upset when Eöl takes his cousin without permission, yet is perfectly fine with presenting Lúthien’s family with a fait accompli. Neither know Thingol very well if they think he will meekly approve, and neither could care less about Lúthien’s own feelings.

I would further note a couple of things:

(i) Celegorm and Curufin’s actions cause real headaches for Laws and Customs. One could imagine Morgoth not knowing or caring that raping Lúthien would cause her death, but the Sons of Feanor – who are lusting after both Lúthien’s bodily form, and the power she represents – certainly would know and care. Yet they go ahead with their plan regardless – which either implies they think they can persuade Lúthien to go willingly (and even these two are not that stupid), or Laws and Customs does not apply. Lúthien is unmarried, but a Law that only applies to married Elves is so offensively specific that it carries no moral weight. Hence my continued preference to discard it altogether.

(ii) There is a significant contrast between the lust of Morgoth and Celegorm/Curufin, and the love expressed by Beren and Huan. That is not to say that Beren is not sexually attracted to Lúthien – he is – but in his case, there is a genuine emotional connection with another being. Morgoth and Celegorm are, by contrast, merely trying to possess Lúthien as an object – the former because destruction is what he does, the latter so he can fulfil his own selfish desires. It is a case of what Terry Pratchett would later write: evil begins when one starts treating others as things.

(Huan meanwhile is pursuing courtly love, a la Gimli and Galadriel: love as a pure emotion, devoid of any sexual element. The Tale of Beren and Lúthien really does represent an extended thematic discussion of Love).

(3) Maeglin and Idril
Image result for maeglin idril
After the death of Aredhel, Maeglin stays in Gondolin with his uncle, Turgon. He also develops feelings for Turgon’s daughter (and only child), Idril. But he runs into two problems: firstly, he’s her first cousin on his mother’s side (which is a bit close for Noldorin tastes), and secondly, she does not return his affections, seeing a darkness within him. Maeglin’s frustrations at sexual rejection become further aggravated when Idril falls for Tuor, a mortal man. Later, under torture from Morgoth, Maeglin gives the location of Gondolin, and in return is promised both the throne and Idril. During the ensuing battle, Maeglin tries to seize Idril, and kill her young son, Eärendil, but is killed himself by Tuor.
Maeglin is a terrifyingly realistic portrait of a certain type of would-be rapist, one which is more common than generally thought. In contrast to Morgoth or Celegorm, who are simply thinking in terms of brutish animal lust, or Pharazôn, who merely sees Míriel as a path to the throne, Maeglin is the epitome of the Creepy Nice Guy. He genuinely wants Idril as a person – though she is a path to the throne, incidentally – and he gets thoroughly bitter and twisted when she refuses (the incest thing, I think, is convenient authorial short-hand to make it clear there is something not quite right about Maeglin). He’s also a Creepy Nice Guy who loses out to the stereotypical Square-Jawed Hero in the form of Tuor: one can very much imagine a modern Maeglin on the internet, writing hateful screeds about women. I do not think Maeglin sees himself as a rapist either – he endures serious torture in Angband before betraying Gondolin, and (in my reading of him), I believe he thinks he is doing Idril a favour under the agreement (“Morgoth is going to win anyway, but at least we’ll be together, and you’ll see how Nice I really am” – all while trying to kill her son).
As for how all this fits into Laws and Customs, it is a mess. Part of the problem is that the only full version of the Fall of Gondolin was written in 1916, decades before the Laws and Customs essay, but does anyone really believe Maeglin’s story could ever be rewritten to fit? That Maeglin himself likely does not consider his actions attempted rape (Idril and Tuor certainly do) is neither here nor there. It is still an example of an Elf, in violation of their supposed “nature”, spitting on the sacred institution of consensual marriage to the point where he tries to kill the child of the marriage in question. Elves like Celegorm and Maeglin simply don’t conform to the cosy Catholicism of Tolkien’s ideal.
Then there is the extent to which Maeglin’s actions vis-a-vis Idril are a psychological shadow of Eöl and Aredhel. Thankfully Tolkien never resorts to the offensive nonsense of J.K. Rowling, where Rowling suggests Voldemort’s inability to love is derived from the nature of his conception – Maeglin may be a child of rape (and a child, also, of the Cursed Noldor), but in Tolkien’s Free Will universe, he is free to make his own choices. I wonder, however, when Aredhel was telling her son of the circumstances under which she and Eöl met, whether Maeglin’s formative ideas about acceptable romantic behaviour took a wrong turn. With Aredhel (at least in the revision) clearly rationalising some attraction to Eöl, it is not hard to imagine her sugar-coating things for her son – and Maeglin picking up the idea that desire and opportunity can work as substitutes for consent.

(4) Forweg and Andróg

Image result for forweg outlaw

In what might be the most stereotypical grimdark moment in The Children of Húrin, Túrin interrupts a pair of men chasing a desperate woman. He kills one, only to see it is Forweg, the leader of his own outlaw band – the other is Andróg, a fellow outlaw. Túrin quips sarcastically that perhaps they were just protecting the woman from orcs. Andróg, who does not grasp Túrin’s sarcasm, defends himself by saying “outlaws know no law but their needs”. Túrin then takes the woman off him, which Andróg wrongly interprets as Túrin wanting the woman for himself. As for the victim:

Then the woman rose to her feet and laid her hand on Túrin’s arm. She looked at the blood and she looked at Túrin, and there was delight in her eyes. ‘Kill him, lord!’ she said. ‘Kill him too! And then come with me. If you bring their heads, Larnach my father will not be displeased. For two “wolf-heads” he has rewarded men well.’

There is more than a hint of the sexual about what she is offering Túrin, and Andróg certainly takes it this way. Cue his utter confusion when Túrin rejects her. Andróg cannot comprehend someone who, having already killed one man, would decline to kill the other if it means money and sex. He concludes that Túrin must have held a personal grudge against Forweg.

Apart from serving up some black comedy in the form of Andróg’s stupidity, the scene shows an interesting discrepancy between Túrin’s innate nobility and the altogether grittier and more cynical setting in which he finds himself – a setting where everyone takes what they want, and cater only to their own animal desires. Túrin, of course, is himself deeply flawed as a person – he is quick-tempered, arrogant, and extremely judgemental – but his flaws exist on a more glamorous and legendary plane than Andróg’s: someone like Túrin exists in a fantasy world where dragons and Dark Lords roam the earth, whereas Andróg, Forweg, and the woman (who sees sex as a means of reward) may have walked out of any grimdark novel you care to name. The cynical assumptions of dark mundanity are contrasted with something more noble and fantastical; the only comparison I can think of in Tolkien is The Scouring of the Shire.

Because this scene was written by J.R.R. Tolkien (pessimistic idealist), and not George R.R. Martin (pessimistic cynic), it is Túrin’s view which carries the day. Martin’s version (perhaps with Sandor Clegane?) would have had the main character rejecting the offer, not out of a moral code, but because he would be too jaded even for this.


My long-ago rant about lazy use of rape in fantasy literature made several caveats: while I still dislike it as a character motivation device, it can be handled appropriately. I suggested three scenarios:

  • Stories where the author takes the time to explore the psychology of all involved.
  • Black comedy.
  • Stories where the characters exist on a moral plane divorced from our own.

What can we say about Tolkien’s portrayal of rape here?

I would suggest that Aredhel/Eöl, and Maeglin/Idril fall into the first category: these stories do actually have a degree of psychological depth, even in a work as terse as The Silmarillion.

Túrin’s outlaw story does contain black comedy – but not about the rape itself. Nor does it really exist to explore psychology. Instead it exists to explore theme. As such, I think my earlier criteria needs modification to add a fourth category – situations where rape does not exist to drive the plot or characterisation, but where it forms part of a wider thematic whole. Aerin and Brodda, I think, also fits into this new fourth category, though there is the caveat that it motivates Túrin to do something destructive. Morgoth/Lúthien, insofar as it features in a story that it is very much about exploring Love, fits here too.

Saruman’s treatment of the Dunlendings rather exists in a different vein to the other examples, since we are dealing with a system, rather than characters. Had Tolkien explicitly described it, I think the story would suffer, but fortunately Tolkien has a good enough grasp of horror to let our minds connect the dots.

Tal-Elmar cuts off before we can say much about it.

Of the more problematic examples:

Morgoth/Arien tries and fails to fit into the third category. Morgoth, as Tolkien’s Satan, may think he operates by a different set of rules, but he is not Zeus or Odin: his attempt on Arien is not amoral but immoral. Without the amoral mythological basis one sees with the Greek gods, and without any sort of psychological or thematic depth to the story, I think this idea was not one of Tolkien’s finer moments. Luckily, Christopher preserved the Tale of the Sun and Moon for us instead.

Celebrían’s story, I think, is the most clichéd of the portrayals. Regardless of whether or not this was actually rape, inventing a character whose only role is suffering, and whose suffering exists solely to explain why another character is single, is something I would expect from lesser authors. Never mind the “motivation bonus” for the Sons of Elrond.

Ar-Pharazôn and Míriel has the makings of an interesting psychological study, but unfortunately Tolkien does not develop it fully enough. He, like Pharazôn himself, is much more interested in what the King does on the throne than what he does in the bedroom.

Celegorm/Lúthien is not badly written, and to be fair, it does exist as part of a story thematically focused on Love. However, I feel it is more problematic than Morgoth/Lúthien (which achieves much the same thing, in terms of portraying animal lust), because it makes Celegorm and Curufin look like complete idiots. I could buy this with Celegorm, who is short-tempered and a bit thick generally, but Curufin is supposed to be crafty and devious. Meanwhile, I dislike how the episode turns Lúthien into a hapless female victim straight out of a pulpy E.R. Burroughs novel – at least with Morgoth she actually has agency. Nothing against E.R. Burroughs, of course, but Tolkien is a better author than that.

Part I of this essay.

12 thoughts on “Rape in Tolkien’s Middle-earth (Part II)

  1. Pingback: Rape in Tolkien’s Middle-earth (Part I) | A Phuulish Fellow

  2. One possible incident has been omitted. One involving Tom Bombadil of all people. From The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, as contained in the 1962 collection of the same name:

    But one day Tom, he went and caught the River-daughter,
    in green gown, flowing hair, sitting in the rushes,
    singing old water-songs to birds upon the bushes.

    He caught her, held her fast! Water-rats went scuttering
    reeds hissed, herons cried, and her heart was fluttering.
    Said Tom Bombadil: ‘Here’s my pretty maiden!
    You shall come home with me! The table is all laden:
    yellow cream, honeycomb, white bread and butter;
    roses at the window-sill and peeping round the shutter.
    You shall come under Hill! Never mind your mother
    in her deep weedy pool: there you’ll find no lover!’

    Old Tom Bombadil had a merry wedding,
    crowned all with buttercups, hat and feather shedding;
    his bride with forgetmenots and flag-lilies for garland
    was robed all in silver-green. He sang like a starling,
    hummed like a honey-bee, lilted to the fiddle,
    clasping his river-maid round her slender middle.

    There is something so incongruous about Tom Bombadil, and his infamous nonsense verse, being associated with something like this. Goldberry does not say “no”, and clearly acquiesces later (“a merry wedding…”), but from the poem, she is literally being physically forced to go with Bombadil at first. In contrast to every other example examined in this essay, the narrative does not condemn it either: at no point is Tom is treated as a villain.

    There are two mitigating factors, I think:

    – In-universe, this is a hobbit poem. In other words, folkloric tradition, rather than necessarily an actual event.
    – In terms of literary style, it is pure folklore, with the characters involved being (potentially) nature spirits of whatever description. While I would hesitate to say that Tom and Goldberry are outside Tolkien’s morality system, this sort of abduction narrative is not about characters who interact with the world in the way that humans, hobbits, elves, dwarves, or other sentient creatures do. These are a different sort of being.


    • About that poem and Goldberry I read somewhere an interpretation that Goldberry in a scene before that tested Bombadil when she teased him, she tried to test whether he is strong of character and that in this fragment you noted she actually ‘allowed’ herself to be caught because she already chose him for her mate after the test was finished positively 🙂 :).

      Liked by 1 person

      • I agree with fantasywind. In the earlier passage Tom sits by the riverside…

        There his beard dangled down long into the water;
        up came Goldberry, the River-woman’ daughter;
        pulled Tom’s hanging hair. In he went a-wallowing
        under the water-lilies, bubbling and a-swallowing.

        ‘Hey, Tom Bombadil! Whither are you going?’
        said fair Goldberry…

        Bombadil sends her back to the River-woman, but she stays on his mind for a lot more of the poem (I read it so you don’t have to). It’s fair to say she has shown interest. What ensues is a rustic courtship involving a symbolic capture — not in line with modern ideas, maybe, but inoffensive in its day


    • I’ll start by making this statement, which will be a recurring theme in my reply:

      There is nothing problematic of using any form, thing, person, motivation, action, setting, situation or otherwise that occurs in reality as a plot device. Murder, as an example, you don’t seem to have a long-winded complaint about, despite it being an equal or worse crime.

      As for the examples given, most of them are far-fetched and probably in Tolkien’s mind had no connection to rape whatsoever; they appear to be reaching on your part.

      The examples you gave that DO fit your complaint the best: Morgoth “ravishing” Arien (a far superior story, in its entirety, than the one that was printed, by the way, when put side by side – and forever my head-canon), Morgoths lust for Luthien and obvious designs on her, the creation of the Uruk-Hai (which almost certainly was achieved by the breeding of human women and orcs – or vice versa, but we hear nothing of female orcs in the legendarium, despite orcs like Azog having a son, Bolg)…. These are in no way bad plot devices as they serve as another example of the evils of Morgoth’s servants and creations, as well as helping to flesh out Morgoth, and later Saruman (though not as much as his entire character is dependent on this) as not simply being brutes, but also creatures of devious and diabolical intent.

      I will also address Maeglin, unfairly characterized by you as “Creepy Nice Guy” – there is no such thing. There are Nice Guys who stay nice, Nice Guys who are broken by various situations or people and regress, and Bad Guys.

      Maeglin is solidly the middle one. Yes, he desires Idril, and he tries to win her over every way he can, in no way showing any signs of disrespect or evil intent – he legitimately cares for her, and in very realistic fashion, she is as you put it, enamored of the Square Jawed Hero. How like our own society THAT is, heh. It is not until after she disdains him and, you forget, mocks his attentions, and after he is taken by Morgoth and, as you quite rightly put it, asks Morgoth for her to spare her the fate she otherwise would have endured. Nowhere is it said his intent is to violate her in any way. And in fact, his mercy in the face of her behaviour is admirable.

      Now for Eol. It is, in the canon text, explicitly stated that Aredhel was not averse to Eol’s affections and stayed with him out of her own will for a time. So, dismiss that one entirely and lets address Curufin’s reply. OF COURSE he sees taking Aredhel to wife as an offense to himself and his household. I WOULD TOO. Curufin knows nothing of the truth of Aredhel’s marriage and neither does anyone else until she herself begs for mercy for him when he comes to find her. Perfectly reasonable reaction from Curufin with his lack of knowledge.

      Ill make brief mention of Celebrian: it is reaching to address her case in the way you have, but not at all to think she may have been violated by the orcs. And if she was, again, perfectly valid plot device that serves to explain much of the motivations of the sons of Elrond and their ferocity, and also serves to deepen his story, that of his daughter, and Celebrian’s herself, who might otherwise appeared in the story only as a backdrop with no real meaning, or as a prize for the hero, as Arwen was depicted in the novels pretty unfairly.

      The rest of the examples given aren’t much worth addressing save the “women taken in battle” stories, which are entirely a more realistic depiction of what happens in war than what we get in the main series, which brings me to my next point:

      If anything, its surprising that in a world with black evil like Morgoth, Sauron and their many servants, as well as evi men, that there are not more instances of rape occurring in the huge amount of text written about Arda. There can be no doubt that the Haradrim and Easterlings would certainly have not blinked twice at this crime, among other groups and singular characters. And there can be no doubt that just like on our world, this crime occurred many many many times throughout the ages of M.E. that were not written of.

      In short, your complaints are invalid and anything is free to use as a plot device without it being a moral question. And whatever Tolkien’s personal morals or rules were do not even come into play: it’s fiction and it isn’t 100% written based on his beliefs or even on the culture of his time. If anything you should be praising Tolkien for creating this world and then making it even more of a fantasy realm by rape not occurring in a frequency that would be much more realistic in a world torn by constant war against a pure evil. Removing that realism is a detriment to a story more than it is anything positive.

      As examples, stories that were adapted from books to television like Game of Thrones, Outlander, Sue Dibny’s story in The Flash, and many other examples, suffered greatly from these kind of scenes being altered in later seasons, or entirely removed in the case of Sue Dibny (whose attacker was retconned into being a woman), by PC whining and manufactured outrage. Both versions of the film IT suffered from this as well, though the removed section in that case didn’t involve rape and simply consensual sex that was absolutely essential to the story to establish the deep connection between the Losers’ Club, but distasteful to the feeble-minded.

      The trend that is currently going on that allows this and encourages it will not last, thankfully, as even liberals like myself tire of the neo-liberal identity politic and reliance on emotion rather than logic, and well, people who are more right-minded hated it to begin with and will only grow more determined to see it stop. In this, I am on their side.

      I’ll end this by noting that I have two children, have never gone more than a week without sex since I started having it, and am in a fantastic relationship with a beautiful girl – and so you can erase any assumption about my motivations for writing this that are based around whether or not I am driven by unhappiness or anger toward women. Additionally, my girlfriend completely agrees with me on every word of this. So, don’t bother with any personal attacks calling me an incel or the like, which is what I have come to expect when expressing these belie… no, these facts.

      Have a great day, and surrender, because your ilk will not win the culture war on this topic or any topic driven by emotional compromise and a desire to homogenize the world to your liking.

      The hypocrisy of such “movements” as pound me too (lmao) make sure of that by solidifying our resolve and driving more people to a truly liberal way of thinking rather than the faux-leftist obsession with degrading society and clamping down on freedom of expression.


      • Massive incel. You may not care but can you put yourself in someone else shoes?. You need to tell everyone that your gf agrees with you to make yourself feel like you’re not a dick.


      • Yeah. I’m totally an incel.

        Tell it to my two sons and their mothers, my fiance, and my sub.


      • As for why I mentioned that my then-girlfriend agreed with me, it is because I anticipated the stupidity you delivered so helpfully for me to laugh at, as well as I felt it was relevant.

        As a female Tolkien fan, her opinion on the use of the rape of women as a plot device is more valid even than mine.

        We just so happen to completely align on this topic.


  3. Pingback: A Tolkien Reading Order | A Phuulish Fellow

  4. Interesting pair of essays! Maeglin as Creepy Nice Guy with expectations warped by his mother’s experience is an interesting take, too. While I would never excuse rape, I think there’s an argument that someone raised on “no means yes” is not a monster like someone for whom “yes doesn’t even matter.”

    Tolkien is vague enough that I suppose one could argue Celegorm and Maeglin were fooling themselves that they could “persuade” their desired mates, in a way compatible with LaCE. But I wouldn’t want to push it.

    Some fanfics have touched on the questions of Luthien, naturally. One suggested that Curufin was driven by *fear*, having too much imagination, and that the fear he let loose in Nargothrond was his own. And taking over a nice underground city probably appealed… (This is tangential to the rape discussions, more about Curufin being an idiot.)

    One (maybe the same one, or it plus another fanfic even) suggested that Luthien was raised to not use her powers on others — this to answer the question of how someone who could battle Sauron and Morgoth could be kept captive by a couple of elves. With Melian having kidnapped Thingol by accident, Luthien was taught to be very careful, like a giant afraid of crushing things.

    Speaking of whom! While Tolkien obviously didn’t intend rape with Melian and Thingol, her initial enchantment of him seems pretty “dubious consent” territory, even if they stood mooning at each other for… years… rather than boinking.

    Liked by 2 people

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